Per our published article of a letter written by one of our readers, Karen D’Cruz, on May 14, 2009, entitled ‘Gross Prejudices on Fly.fm’, we have taken it down at the request of the author.
The letter expressed concern and outrage at anti-gay undertones in remarks made by Fly.fm DJ Prem while discussing the topic, “What you would not want to hear about your ex”.
Among other things, the letter claimed that while the DJ was elaborating on the rumors that his ex-girlfriend had turned gay, he had referred to the girlfriend as ‘sick’ and implied that though she was really pretty and he could not imagine why she ‘turned’ gay when she could have most men she wanted.
The author was concerned that the DJ was allowed to freely spread ‘prejudices and ignorance’ against the LGBT community on national radio and had sent the letter to multiple LGBT rights organization including Tilted World.
To be fair, none of the writers on Tilted World or Karen herself had actually heard the alleged comments on air. Subsequently, Tilted World has received a barrage of criticisms for posting the letter without fact-checking the contents of the letter. A few of the commentators have also contended that they listened to the relevant segment but did not hear tthe DJ makign any anti-gay comments.
To this, Tilted World would like to issue a public apology for posting the letter without first making attempts to contact Fly.fm directly over the matter.
The letter has since been taken down, as requested by author herself. While Tilted World has pressed her for the reasons of her decision, she has chosen to remain silent.
Post-investigation revealed that the author and the author’s source can only verbally verify their claims. I have since contacted the author’s source, asking her to recount what she actually heard on the radio that day. She has since replied me and confirmed that she did hear the alleged statements made by the DJ.
We are doing our best to obtain additional information regarding the radio show. To date, we contacted the radio show requesting for an audio clip of the segment. In addition, Tilted World has written to the DJ, asking him to clarify the allegations. Tilted World is presently still waiting for responses from both parties. Thus, the question of whether Prem had actually made the alleged remarks remains unsolved.
A potentially libellous picture of Prem with the caption ’spiteful ex-boyfriend’ was also posted together with the letter, but has since been taken down as well. As the person responsible for putting up that picture, I apologize for my inappropriate action.
In addition, while Tilted World will not censor any of the non-spam comments on the blog in line with its non-censorship policy, I would like to say sorry to for labelling some of the dissenting commentators as Prem’s friends in my comments on this post. I am barely of voting age yet, I have my lapses in maturity but I am also learning.
Bottomline, Tilted World retains its collective stance against homophobic remarks published or broadcast in the media as well as remains an outlet for the Malaysian LGBT community to voice their opinions and concerns.
As already elucidated in an earlier post, ‘What They say On Air’, the main focus at hand, is the discriminatory policy or lack thereof of national public radio stations.
Regardless of whether the DJ had used particular words or phrases as contended by some of our commentators, the main point of contention is a larger one – the fact that an anecdote on a person’s sexual orientation was made to be entertainment on radio.
And though I personally did not hear that particular episode, I am certain that this is not the first instance that Fly.fm’s responsibility in maintaining gender sensitivity has been questioned. I can bear witness to hearing terms like ‘not normal’ being used by DJs to describe homosexuality, phrases like “that’s so gay” being flung about as if the word ‘gay’ was some petty, belittling term, or phrases which reek of homosexual undertones, such as lyrics in Katy Perry’s song ‘I Kissed A Girl’ being censored while the sexually explicit lyrics of other songs remain untouched on Fly.fm.
And of course, this matter extends to all mass media in Malaysia. Whether it is in Astro airing shows that screen out the words ‘gay’ and ‘lesbian’ (corrected), local television programs vilifying transsexuals or local publications poking fun at ‘effeminate men’, local media organizations have time and again failed to be responsible in according respect to persons of different sexual orientations.
As such, Tilted World is looking into inquiring local media organizations – beginning with Fly.fm – for non-discrimination policies in the near future.
As for members of the LGBT community who feel that Tilted World has failed to serve as a credible advocacy site for the community, they are always welcomed to join the team as contributors and improve the site. Tilted World started as a community project – all contributors are full-time students/employees who free-lance for the site, and at least half the team are based outside Malaysia - and will remain so. As such, we face genuine time and resource constraints in administering and monitoring the site, and we will gladly recruit new contributors who think that can help the site serve the community better.
If there is one thing I have learned from this episode, it is that – and I think this applies to everyone – you can lose blog readers. You can lose radio listeners. You can lose anything and everything but you cannot lose morally.
Sincerely, Chong Yong Wei Gabrielle
Written on behalf of the Tilted Team
[ corrected: Astro did air shows that censored the words "gay" and "lesbian", but the censoring was done in Hong Kong; Astro bought the rights to the show (corrected again -- a Star PR representative claimed --without investigating first-- they "might" have censored it, hence confusion, but Astro was the one responsible after all) -- Lainie]
May 14th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
This is directed to the letter writer, and perhaps to the owner of the blog as well in response to the letter that was in response to the comments from Prem on the radio.
Honestly, you have to consider that…the rest of the world is straight. And while it’s not ‘perfectly politically correct’ to talk about stuff like this it is pretty funny, newsworthy and interesting (to us straight folks at least). And this isn’t any ordinary girl. This is a really pretty girl! We kind of expect the butch fat girls to be lesbian anyway. That’s why it’s newsworthy.
Also re: ‘How can one blatantly pass judgment on individuals whom you know next to nothing about?’
He wasn’t judging ‘your kind’, he was judging HER, a girl he’s been dating.
I presume he did not name the girl, so it should be fine, yes? Isn’t it good to get a heads up on a new entry in the market?
From what I see here that the deejay in question isn’t prejudiced against gay people…he’s obviously troubled by the fact that his girlfriend turned straight. He’s entitled to be upset. And well, as a listener I would find it interesting banter.
You answer this question. What would you not like to hear about your ex? I think the thing that would most upset you is that she turned straight. After all, she could have any girl she wanted. Why would she want a guy?
You would be similiarly troubled if your girlfriend (since you are a lesbian), turned straight right after she dumped you. And you would be discussing it with your friends, right? If you had a lesbian talk show, you would probably bring up this topic yes?
Ask your friends. They’ll probably bring it up as well if they had a radio show.
So what’s so wrong about bringing up a topic interesting to us breeders on radio that caters to mainly straight people (ie, us the majority)? Seriously, if you guys want to be more accepted…chill la!
Gay rights will progress further when you guys stop taking offense at little things like this, and be able to laugh a little at it. After all, there’s plenty of relationship humour to go around in all relationships, gay or straight.
Obviously this is a funny story and she joined your ‘team’, and he’s obviously upset about it. So it’s a win for you girls ok!
Honestly, you lesbians aren’t too bad. I can identify with you as I totally like girls too.
But try be more like the gays okay? Most of the lesbians I know are all emo and stuff, and the gay guys are like, all flamboyant and happy
May 15th, 2009 at 12:37 am
Dear Anon Straight Dude,
There’s nothing wrong with complaining that my lesbian girlfriend turns straight. But I think there’s something wrong when the event is cast in a bad light that targets the person’s sexuality. According to the letter, the ex-girlfriend was referred to as being ’sick’ – using such a pejorative term to refer to someone’s change in sexuality is definitely a a derogatory slur!
I am also very troubled to read your line of argument. Just because people find it newsworthy and funny, it should be OK to make such comments? I recognize that most of the world is straight. But I also recognize that many people are racists, sexists, and homophobic. Just because someone’s sexuality has changed seems funny to you and your “straight dudes”, it does not make it any less insensitive and prejudiced to be laughing at or insulting the lesbian ex-girlfriend.
As a queer-identified male-bodied person, I cannot disagree more with the assumptions and stereotypes you’re making. “Gay guys are…all flamboyant and happy” and “lesbians…are all emo and stuff” are sweeping statements that are not true at all. Let’s just reverse the question: “Straight men are violent bigots – they beat up gay people and abuse Mak Nyahs”. Same line of logic, no?
This is not a “little thing” to take offence with. This is serious and worrying that you can so casually argue without seeing the many presumptions you’re making on a person’s gender and sexuality.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:01 am
Actually, all people of all sexes and orientations are capable of beating up people of all sexes and orientations. For example, the Chulan Pondan?
I admit that I did overgeneralise a bit on that part about lesbian girls being a lot more emo than men. But it’s true most of the time, like 80%. I do feel sorry for them that for the most part a lot of them seem very unhappy, depressed in their baggy shirts and short cropped hair. I seldom see a lesbian smile. But gays, yes. Talking loudly and laughing, smiling in their colourful gender bending threads.
Can you honestly say that isn’t true, especially on a surface level? Just take a sample of your friends and their general outlook.
It’ll be interesting to know exactly what was said, in what context was she ’sick’. Without the full sentence, it’s hard to tell. As ’sick’ is also ‘cool’ in slang. Like ‘that new Scissor Sisters dance track was really sick man!’ Something I was thinking of as well…would it have been okay if he talked about the girl, but did not mention she was ’sick’? Would it not have aroused such controversy then?
So what needs to be cleared up now is the context in which he said ’sick’.
At the end of the day, straight people and gay people of all races will be overgeneralized. Eg, Chinese men are stingy and have small dicks. (Disclaimer: I am Chinese, straight, above average size dick). While you do want more acceptance, it’s common sense to accept that all people will have presumptions on all kinds of people, and it’s asking too much to be exempted from that.
It’s not just a sexuality thing. Wouldn’t you find it funny if your boyfriend (who dates Chinese guys most of the time), suddenly switches and only dates black dudes afterwards? I mean it would be sad, but it would be funny in an exasperating manner, like the kind of thing you complain about to your friends at the mamak.
And come on, wouldn’t it be funny if your really really gay friend suddenly turned straight and got married? See what I mean?
My response to this was mainly also because the letter writer really overreacted – ‘He is not discriminating but he was and will most likely continue to spread prejudice and racial manifestos and possibly a jihad against some secular group that he holds a grudge against!’
There was no call for a jihad. This was a guy who was upset over something and decided to share. If anything he’s prejudiced against his hot ex girlfriend, not all lesbians.
You can’t assume that an attack on one is an attack on all.
For example, if I accuse a fat lawyer of corruption, it does not mean I am attacking all fat people. Or all lawyers. Or all fat lawyers.
It’s equally serious and worrying that someone (namely the letter writer) can so overreact to something which wasn’t really targeted at them directly.
Where’s this radio clip so we can get a better idea to see who is overreacting?
May 15th, 2009 at 3:14 am
Dear ASD,
I will agree with you under these few assumptions that you have made:
1. That it is “normal” or “usual” for people to stereotype and overgeneralize;
2. That we should not highlight a racist, sexist, or homophobic remark because we are a minority and we can’t expect the world to adhere to our ideals;
3. That we can take your sample size of possible LGBTQ group of friends to conclude that all lesbians are “depressed” and gay men are “happy”;
4. That talking about a Chinese self-identified gay man who suddenly likes African American “dudes” is funny and mamak-material.
I will disagree with you because:
1. Just because many people say things that assume a fixed and stable gender and/or sexuality of a person does not make it OK for someone to say it in ANY CONTEXT on radio, at home, or at a mamak;
2. Despite what the hegemonizing majority is saying, I will continue to ensure that no racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic remark is used in any sort of discourse;
3. That I have friends, in any sort of permutation, who are B, G, L, T, Q, happy, depressed, suicidal, optimistic, hopeful, radical, liberal, conservative, young, old, etc.
4. That talking about the way people prefer a race over another race is not funny.
I am not worried that an attack on one is an attack on all. I am worried that it is an attack. Overreacting? Maybe. I sure prefer overreaction to derogatory ad hominem attacks of a person’s sexuality in public.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:31 am
See what people fail to understand is that you don’t just TURN gay or straight they way you flick on a switch.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Dear Anon Chinese Straight Dude With The Above Average Size Penis,
Due to lack of eloquence, I make all my replies in debate format. Sorry for the rigidity, man.
1. “Honestly, you have to consider that…the rest of the world is straight. And while it’s not ‘perfectly politically correct’ to talk about stuff like this it is pretty funny, newsworthy and interesting (to us straight folks at least). And this isn’t any ordinary girl. This is a really pretty girl! We kind of expect the butch fat girls to be lesbian anyway. That’s why it’s newsworthy.”
- The majority of the population prefers cheeseburgers to duck rice. Still doesn’t make it alright to make disparaging remarks against duck rice consumers. There’re many fine lines that constitute what’s ‘newsworthy’. Ever heard of tastefulness, public service value and ethics? And what’s up with the stereotyping, dude? “We kind of expect all the fat, ugly, sloppy, moustached, hairy, guys to be straight anyway”, same line of logic, no?
2. “Ask your friends. They’ll probably bring it up as well if they had a radio show.”
- Maybe. But I would certainly not call me ex-girlfriend ’sick’ or any other derogatory term under any circumstances.
3. “Gay rights will progress further when you guys stop taking offense at little things like this, and be able to laugh a little at it. After all, there’s plenty of relationship humour to go around in all relationships, gay or straight.”
- ‘Little things’, like termites, tend to be indicative of bigger, more destructive things.
4. “I admit that I did overgeneralise a bit on that part about lesbian girls being a lot more emo than men. But it’s true most of the time, like 80%. I do feel sorry for them that for the most part a lot of them seem very unhappy, depressed in their baggy shirts and short cropped hair. I seldom see a lesbian smile. But gays, yes. Talking loudly and laughing, smiling in their colourful gender bending threads. Can you honestly say that isn’t true, especially on a surface level? Just take a sample of your friends and their general outlook.”
- I’m more inclined to believe that don’t know enough gay people in the first place. Like how a new listener of Fly.fm may generalize that all Fly.fm DJs are homophobic just because he/she hasn’t listen to the station long enough.
5. “It’ll be interesting to know exactly what was said, in what context was she ’sick’. Without the full sentence, it’s hard to tell. As ’sick’ is also ‘cool’ in slang. Like ‘that new Scissor Sisters dance track was really sick man!’ Something I was thinking of as well…would it have been okay if he talked about the girl, but did not mention she was ’sick’? Would it not have aroused such controversy then? So what needs to be cleared up now is the context in which he said ’sick’.”
- I’m sure that Prem didn’t mean to say ’sick’ as in ‘cool’ when describing his ex. Go ask him, ya?
6. “At the end of the day, straight people and gay people of all races will be overgeneralized. Eg, Chinese men are stingy and have small dicks. (Disclaimer: I am Chinese, straight, above average size dick). While you do want more acceptance, it’s common sense to accept that all people will have presumptions on all kinds of people, and it’s asking too much to be exempted from that.”
- Just because people have the tendency to make generalizations and conjure stereotypes doesn’t make it OK to do so. To quote Martin Luther King Jr, I refuse to accept the idea that the “isness” of man’s present nature makes him morally incapable of reaching up for the eternal “oughtness” that forever confronts him.
7. “Where’s this radio clip so we can get a better idea to see who is overreacting?”
- Unfortunately, none of us had the chance to record that particular segment; the incident was relayed to us by a member of the public (perhaps Fly.fm doesn’t have that many listeners in the first place). But if you’ve the clip, please send it to us and we’ll put it up promptly.
In the meantime, I’m switching off Fly.fm. So much for being a listener all these years.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
A comment from a ‘AlexV’: “Well, he probably doesn’t mean to call the lesbian or gay community sick but it is probably a way he compensates for feeling inadequate. If you put yourself into his shoes, if you are a guy and your ex-girlfriend turns gay, you probably start to think that you are inadequate and unable to provide enough for her that she turned to women for her needs.
Don’t take it as a personal attack. It is his way of defending his own pride and ego. Just keep in mind, you are above this guy who obviously doesn’t understand the context of being gay. But I do want to know what his ex-gf feels after being called sick on air.”
May 15th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Oh..I see long comments above mine and a deadline due in a few minutes. Just popping by to say that if anyone will like to leave Prem a message on his (moderated) fly fm blog, here’s the url: http://www.flyfm.com.my/blog_prem/default.asp
May 15th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Anon Straight Dude: Dude, wanna troll also put more effort in la.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Obviously, Prem’s official Fly.fm blog won’t publish my comment (for the same reasons civil service departments don’t publish feedback), but’s let’s talk to him anyway.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
aiya gabs, don’t be so judgey. try first, give till the next update to see if it goes up (you see his previous posts takde comments, maybe whoever’s in charge ain’t used to it as well).
i’d actually like to hear prem’s response, fair being fair, i don’t think he was expecting a backlash, so now that this situation has come up, it’d be nice to see how he handles it.
anyhow i archived my comment in the emails as you saw, so we can always publish it elsewhere
May 15th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I would like to hear the radio clip too. I would rather hear it myself rather than act on something someone said.
May 15th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
“Actually, all people of all sexes and orientations are capable of beating up people of all sexes and orientations. For example, the Chulan Pondan?”
The Chulan Pondan? That is a horrible ONE example which masks A LOT of brutality and violence against lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transsexuals.
Some even ending in death.
Is it necessary to deviate from the issue of calling a lesbian sick by using 1 transsexual instead as an example of someone beating someone up?
May 15th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Re Char: Yeah, it’d be great if any Tilted World reader can contribute the audio file.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
We should post the comments on Prem’s blog
May 16th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Well, actually, I do find that we’ve got a bit of um, overreaction at our side… I’m gay and happy, but I don’t really find the DJ offensive or what. Probably the usage of the word ’sick’ over broadcast media is a bit unsettling, but personally I don’t think that it’s something to be upset about. And I don’t think he’s discriminating against all lesbians; he’s just talking about his ex-gf, who so coincidently, ‘turned gay’. I don’t think that’s at all appropriate, but there’re many instances when those radio DJs make crude comments on air. But those were not abt gays or lesbians; those were about silly people whom they have met (whose sexuality weren’t disclosed), so we don’t really give a damn about what they say.
Once they were talking about ‘what is a real man’ and comments like ‘a man who cries in the cinema is not a real man’ were actually made on air, both by the DJs and the callers. I’m not a man, of course, yet I felt a bit offended by that statement as well, but you don’t see men who cry at the cinema going on a protest. If you’re going to take everything they say seriously, there will be so many more LGTBQ-unrelated topics which you will have to also get upset about, because they too, sounded offensive.
Like the straight chinese dude with an above average size penis (lol) said, maybe we really are overreacting. Come on, we all know Prem’s case isn’t half as bad as Bernama’s. I do believe that we’re a bit too sensitive.
See, I have this very very very gay friend who turned very very very straight, and now she’s oogling over guys at her college. I felt disgusted too, not because of the fact that she’s ‘turned straight’, but the fact that she’s, all of a sudden, totally different from the ‘old her’ we knew. This very RADICAL change in her scared the lot of us. It makes you wonder if you’ve actually known this person who’s this close to you, is or was. And yea, me and my friends used to discuss it over a cup of teh tarik at the mamak stalls. There’s nothing wrong with ‘turning straight’ or ‘turning gay’, but it’s just a bit scary when a person you think you know so well changes radically. But of course we got over it after the initial shock period.
I believe Prem’s just like us — Unpleasantly shocked at the news that his ex-gf who used to date him (a man), is now dating (or oogling at) other females. He just wasn’t prepared for the news. Probably it’s his ego, probably it’s something else; he’s wrong for calling his ex-gf sick on air, but he’s not bashing gays and he made a clarification about that. I don’t see the need to get so fussed up. So, ladies, just… chill.
Anyways this is just my opinion.
And um, in reply to the straight dude’s comment: ‘I do feel sorry for them that for the most part a lot of them seem very unhappy, depressed in their baggy shirts and short cropped hair. ‘
Hahahahaha, I really laughed out loud when I read that. Okay, you don’t have to feel sorry for us. I believe there’re also gay dudes out there who are just as emo as we are. But yeah, I do agree that many lesbians are emo (well, at least those I’ve seen are lol), but don’t generalise. I was emo, but I’m not now, lol. And for the record, I don’t wear baggy shirts, nor do I have short, cropped hair.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Re : SherylM
Actually, I agree with you.
May 18th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I’m a lesbian that have short cropped hair, wear baggy shirts but I’m very happy and cheerful everyday for no particular reason… There many type of personality and characteristic of people in this world, if straight dude think that ALL lesbian are in that way…. I bet he haven’t meet a straight people that are also emo, depressed, unhappy in certain ways….
May 19th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
This is directed to the letter writer,
I am writing in as a fellow listener to Fly FM who listened to this particular clip that is the topic of discussion here.I must say, its amazing how one person’s comments can make such an impact on another, amazing enough when words that never existed in the radio clip is the headliner in this discussion but i’m sure this is expected considering the fact that you had not heard this clip directly. I dn’t think it’s fair to pass judgement without hearing it yourself.
The word ’sick’ was not used here at all. Don’t get me wrong here, some of my closest friends are from the gay community and this is so because i have always found them to be much more honest about a friendship. But, what i fail to see is how a harmless comment as made by this dj in question has been under so much of debate. As stated by SheryIM, he was talking about his ex, and not being discriminitory about lesbians or gays. Everyday silly things are said on radio. There are days where i wonder, how on earth can half these things even be on air. But does that mean we have to criticise everything? Ok, so maybe he should not have brought it up in that manner, but it was a casual conversation and i’m sure it was meant in a harmless manner. He even said he was not discriminating against gays..
Well, this is just my opinion. I dn’t see how this should even be a topic of discussion because we are all the same. Girls, guys, gays & lesbians. We are no different to each other and we of all are not perfect. Like Gabriel said above, we are all overgeneralised, and people will always have presumptions but it remains just that,.a presumption…
May 20th, 2009 at 2:32 am
I listen to the radio for entertainment, and listening to someone slagging off one’s ex partner on the ground of sexuality is by no mean entertaining.
I think entertaining was never really the intention and yes,keep telling yourself that but you can’t deny that it does come across as over compensating for one sense of inadequacy and insecurity based on the derogatory comments targeted towards lesbians.
How self involved can a person be? I mean, a man that question why is a girl choosing to be with another woman when she can have any man she wants? Sad isn’t it when an adult think that the world revolves around him. Its like me me me me, no wonder the ex dumped him. How ignorant and sexist can you get? when will people realise homosexuality is not a choice; it is way of life,it is an identity, there’s no reasoning to it , its just the way we are.
I also think just because people tend to generalise, that doesn’t make it OK thank you very much. Why should we identify as stereotype when we are not? Its one thing for saying silly things on the radio but not even acknowledging that some people might find it offensive is another.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:17 am
For me the issue is not about whether he used the word “sick” or not, or if he attacked his ex, or the entire lesbian community.
For me the issue is the fact that such comments made against minority groups, whether from a sexuality, gender identity, or socioeconomic aspect are considered entertaining, are jokes, are said in jest without ill-meaning, and are defended. Sure, people laugh at them. And sure, it seems rather stupid to harp on a something that was not initially intentionally derogatory.
But I have had enough with being fetishized, talked about, joked about, and made into interesting points of discussion on the radio and the TV. I think what’s more worrying that the issue of Prem using an unintentional? slur on his ex-girlfriend who identifies as lesbian now, is that people think it’s OK if such things are talked and joked about in public.
And the only reason that it happens and is OK is because “everyone else” does it – the hegemonizing heteronormative majority does it – hence, it is OK. Really?
May 20th, 2009 at 9:08 am
For full closure, I am making these comments without hearing what Prem actually said on the air.
To add more to Jia Hui’s point, I’d say the issue at hand is also that public figures need take responsibility for statements they make publicly – ill-intended or otherwise. As a DJ, Prem is by default a public figure. Maybe he intended to deal with his breakup humorous, maybe he intended to be honest and open about his feelings. But, bottom-line is it’s unacceptable for a public figure to make remarks on a marginalized community that can be construed as derogatory.
The way I treat this situation is the way I would treat any situation when someone makes an inappropriate remark – admonishment and justification for the admonishment. In this case, I really can’t wag my finger at Prem and validate for my fingerwags (since I am an Auntie and all) since there are only anecdotal accounts of what was said.
However, we, the members of the LGBT community, are a minority. If we don’t make an attempt to speak up for ourselves, we cannot expect anyone else to. So even if what was said was a mild disparaging remark, we need to make our disapproval heard so people know that making public negative statements about our community is not socially acceptable.
Even if you are not an LGBT member and even if you overheard a negative remark about anyone/see gross injustice done upon someone (less than well-endowed body parts etc.), won’t it be your civic duty to speak up or take action against the perpetrator?
May 21st, 2009 at 1:45 pm
First of all, i was listening to that show and I did not hear Prem or any Dj on FLy Fm say or use th word “Sick” to describe his ex-girlfriend.
I believed it was tastefully done and it did not offend anyone. Secondly you yourself didn’t hear the radio show and how can you judge based on that honey? It makes your accusations invalid because you did not directly hear it. for all you know your opinion are based on the grapevine effect.
seriously I’m all for LGBT myself and I am a person driving on the other side of the road and i felt no offense coming from the radio show. I mean we want to be treated equally and be allowed to voice our opions, is it right for us to shove our opinion down other peoples throats (no pun intended sugar)?
If we want to co-exist with one another i believe we should just accept different opinions and views. Do onto others as you wish upon yourself.
I mean me loving another man might be a great offense to great many straight people (women included)but i don’t publicly display it and shove it into everyones face. I want the same rights and respect but not to degrade anyone.
We should all live in peace under the rainbow.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Thank you Miss Dorothy. We’ve written a response to this comment being raised several times in the post “What They Say on Air”, dated May 20, 2009.
May 21st, 2009 at 1:57 pm
And to add to my point. Larry King and Jerry Springer did start out as radio DJ but their topics were so controversial and so talked about that they became who they are. Which means if you really hated Prem so much darling you in fact did the opposite. YOU are the one that is making him into a Larry King or Jerry Springer because now apparently thanks to you, he’s controversial.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
“To be clear, Tilted World does not guarantee the accuracy of facts or necessarily agree with the sentiments expressed when posting articles, new stories, letters, and opinion pieces written by other individuals not on the editorial team.”
– Not true. You supported this fully and defended the letter, it’s purpose and it’s comments and continue to do so. –“ Gross Prejudices on Fly.fm “ — Exhibit A
“We try to provide the direct source of our information and knowledge, whenever possible, as well as attributing all information taken from websites, books, blogs, and movies to their original sources.”
– Not true. You did not attempt whatsoever to do this. Only after ‘furious debate’ and criticism rose did you even bother to think about it.
“We view the issue not as one in which a slur or derogatory remark was targeted at the LGBTQ community, but as one in which an anecdote involving a queer woman was used as entertainment and was joked about on radio.”
– How can you view the issue as anything when you have no firsthand knowledge of what the issue even is? Alleged use of the word ‘sick’ was just one part of it. You did not and still do not know at all about the rest of the content either.
“We feel that the published letter, despite its alleged factual inaccuracies, highlight the importance of the responsibility public figures have and address the issue that an individual was made into an “entertaining” and “newsworthy” object.”
– You can publish a letter that has ‘alleged factual inaccuracies’ on an also alleged statement/anecdote by a radio dj to address an ‘issue that an individual was made into an “entertaining” and “newsworthy” object.’ You are willing to stake your reputation and the image of Malaysian LGBT Communities on what amounts to hearsay?
“Tilted World has thus sent an email to the DJ letting him know that we are happy to publish any comments or views he has regarding the issue.”
— – Tags | complain letter, DJ Prem, Fly.fm, homophobic remarks
The following letter was written by Karen Ann D’cruz in response to remarks with homophobic overtones by Fly.fm DJ Prem that was broadcasted on air. Many thanks to Karen for her permission to publish her letter.
– After this do you think you deserve an explanation from him?
This was irresponsible. Plain and simple. This site has crucified the man.
– Putting up the man’s picture with a caption “Spiteful ex-boyfriend: Fly.fm DJ Prem” is more ignorant than his alleged act. This when you have not even PROVEN he even SAID anything in the first place. That’s an adolescent act.
– The National Enquirer has more credibility than this site and its team right now.
– Isn’t it your duty to find out first? This is internet journalism. Isn’t it the cardinal rule of journalism to get your facts straight before publishing anything? Journalism based on assumption, based on ONE person’s claim? Fire your legal advisers and Editor.
– If the audio clip proves him innocent, you will be exposed for incompetence and have insulted the lesbian rights movement. This site is insignificant at best, in terms of the people who would have read the letter by Karen D’ Cruz, who ought to really put her pen to sleep, it’s damage for other lesbians/women.
– Karen, you spoke about professionalism? Tact and decency? Spreading negative views? You’ve been the poster child for lack of, none of and plenty of.
“Was anyone listening to Flyfm this evening(Wed, 13/5). Well tragically I did not but I was informed of this gross injustice via our community network “ — Via a community network of ONE person —
“ This is what happened…” — really? It happened? Not allegedly happened or was this an oversight on your part?
– Your tones were appalling. How can you claim the lesbian moral high ground when your actions were immoral, unjust and dishonest.
– Others have rights too. LGBT rights are not a good enough excuse to do and say what you like without any moral responsibilities. You can’t run a site without accountability. Not one like this certainly.
– You want rights. You want respect. Behave better.
– If you don’t know how to speak, you don’t deserve a voice. It’s an embarrassment to everyone in the LGBT community. This site does not serve the community at all, this is for yourselves.
– And before any of you decide that I am some kind of straight sympathizer, stow it. I am a lesbian. Of course there will be a backlash from you but before you decide to say anything, if you believe in your source, if you believe in Karen D’ Cruz, if you believe you are REALLY right, don’t write letters, go to FlyFm and talk with them. Come on. Go for it. More action.
– Don’t hide behind e-mails and letters. Show your faces. Be out, loud and proud.
– You laid down the gauntlet, set the bar high, now prove to everyone here that you have done the right thing.
– Justify it to that DJ’s friends and family as to why his face is in this site labelled as spiteful and he has been declared ignorant. Say it to his face when you hear the clip. Contact the LGBT Community Groups. Let’s see what they have to say about it. Will you have their full support after they hear the whole story? In fact, they’re more out there than you people, hasn’t anyone from those numerous groups picked up on this and acted upon it????? This “Gross Prejudice”…
Gross Prejudice is actually apt. Only it came from you.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:42 pm
[“To be clear, Tilted World does not guarantee the accuracy of facts or necessarily agree with the sentiments expressed when posting articles, new stories, letters, and opinion pieces written by other individuals not on the editorial team.”
– Not true. You supported this fully and defended the letter, it’s purpose and it’s comments and continue to do so. –“ Gross Prejudices on Fly.fm “ — Exhibit A]
*- No, we did not. If you look at the thread of arguments started by ASD, all we were defending was whether the alleged act was something tantamount to discrimination. The letter was only implied as a document talking about the alleged act.
[“We try to provide the direct source of our information and knowledge, whenever possible, as well as attributing all information taken from websites, books, blogs, and movies to their original sources.”
– Not true. You did not attempt whatsoever to do this. Only after ‘furious debate’ and criticism rose did you even bother to think about it.]
*- Not true, again. All our posts attribute their original sources with links, quotations, and in this letter’s instance, from the very beginning, it was written who wrote the letter and whether the author approved our publishing it.
[“We view the issue not as one in which a slur or derogatory remark was targeted at the LGBTQ community, but as one in which an anecdote involving a queer woman was used as entertainment and was joked about on radio.”
– How can you view the issue as anything when you have no firsthand knowledge of what the issue even is? Alleged use of the word ‘sick’ was just one part of it. You did not and still do not know at all about the rest of the content either.]
*- Again, not true. No one is claiming first-hand knowledge of anything. The letter raised an issue. The fact that some people were disturbed by the issue (of a public figure making potentially unfriendly LGBTQ remarks) is enough cause for a benefit of doubt.
[“We feel that the published letter, despite its alleged factual inaccuracies, highlight the importance of the responsibility public figures have and address the issue that an individual was made into an “entertaining” and “newsworthy” object.”
– You can publish a letter that has ‘alleged factual inaccuracies’ on an also alleged statement/anecdote by a radio dj to address an ‘issue that an individual was made into an “entertaining” and “newsworthy” object.’ You are willing to stake your reputation and the image of Malaysian LGBT Communities on what amounts to hearsay?]
*- Please refer to previous reply: Again, not true. No one is claiming first-hand knowledge of anything. The letter raised an issue. The fact that some people were disturbed by the issue (of a public figure making potentially unfriendly LGBTQ remarks) is enough cause for a benefit of doubt. I urge you to go through the arguments we were making; they were about the act, whether it took place or not. As for the fact that we published the letter without fact-checking, refer to:”To be clear, Tilted World does not … necessarily agree with the sentiments expressed when posting articles, new stories, letters, and opinion pieces written by other individuals not on the editorial team.”
[“Tilted World has thus sent an email to the DJ letting him know that we are happy to publish any comments or views he has regarding the issue.”
— - Tags | complain letter, DJ Prem, Fly.fm, homophobic remarks
The following letter was written by Karen Ann D’cruz in response to remarks with homophobic overtones by Fly.fm DJ Prem that was broadcasted on air. Many thanks to Karen for her permission to publish her letter.]
*– I think, for an unmoderated comments section, I am quite surprised at the maturity of the arguments not being personal attacks on the said person. Again, if you look through the arguments, the person was never demonized or “crucified”. We merely criticized, in discussion, his alleged act.
[– Putting up the man’s picture with a caption “Spiteful ex-boyfriend: Fly.fm DJ Prem” is more ignorant than his alleged act. This when you have not even PROVEN he even SAID anything in the first place. That’s an adolescent act.
– The National Enquirer has more credibility than this site and its team right now.]
*- That’s true. The caption was perhaps uncalled for. As for the comparison between us and the Enquirer, now now, who’s crucifying whom?
[– Isn’t it your duty to find out first? This is internet journalism. Isn’t it the cardinal rule of journalism to get your facts straight before publishing anything? Journalism based on assumption, based on ONE person’s claim? Fire your legal advisers and Editor.
– If the audio clip proves him innocent, you will be exposed for incompetence and have insulted the lesbian rights movement. This site is insignificant at best, in terms of the people who would have read the letter by Karen D’ Cruz, who ought to really put her pen to sleep, it’s damage for other lesbians/women.]
*- Nope. This is not a news site. And we do not claim to be journalists. Since we’re quoting the released statement heavily, here’s what we are: “ilted World has been created to serve as an online community space to allow different individuals to express their views concerning the lives, rights, politics, experiences, and identity of the queer, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and gay community. In line with that goal, Tilted World encourages such discussions that go on in the “comments” section of every post. We do not censor comments, unless they are irrelevant or ad hominem attacks.”
[– Karen, you spoke about professionalism? Tact and decency? Spreading negative views? You’ve been the poster child for lack of, none of and plenty of.
“Was anyone listening to Flyfm this evening(Wed, 13/5). Well tragically I did not but I was informed of this gross injustice via our community network “ — Via a community network of ONE person —
“ This is what happened…” — really? It happened? Not allegedly happened or was this an oversight on your part?
– Your tones were appalling. How can you claim the lesbian moral high ground when your actions were immoral, unjust and dishonest.]
*- This is not a question for my answer.
[– Others have rights too. LGBT rights are not a good enough excuse to do and say what you like without any moral responsibilities. You can’t run a site without accountability. Not one like this certainly.
– You want rights. You want respect. Behave better.
– If you don’t know how to speak, you don’t deserve a voice. It’s an embarrassment to everyone in the LGBT community. This site does not serve the community at all, this is for yourselves.
– And before any of you decide that I am some kind of straight sympathizer, stow it. I am a lesbian. Of course there will be a backlash from you but before you decide to say anything, if you believe in your source, if you believe in Karen D’ Cruz, if you believe you are REALLY right, don’t write letters, go to FlyFm and talk with them. Come on. Go for it. More action.
– Don’t hide behind e-mails and letters. Show your faces. Be out, loud and proud.
– You laid down the gauntlet, set the bar high, now prove to everyone here that you have done the right thing.
– Justify it to that DJ’s friends and family as to why his face is in this site labelled as spiteful and he has been declared ignorant. Say it to his face when you hear the clip. Contact the LGBT Community Groups. Let’s see what they have to say about it. Will you have their full support after they hear the whole story? In fact, they’re more out there than you people, hasn’t anyone from those numerous groups picked up on this and acted upon it????? This “Gross Prejudice”…
Gross Prejudice is actually apt. Only it came from you.]
*- Thank you for your comments. I do think they raise relevant points about the main aims of this project. It is a discussion we have quite frequently, if whether we want to expand our work to more practical action. Several obstacles remain, including funding and the fact that sexuality-related organizations are not allowed by the government, but it is an idea we still now and then discuss.
As for being out and proud, I think I pretty much am. That said, in keeping with a safe and comfortable space that we try to create, we do not pressure any of our writers or readers to “come out”. Similarly, we do not require you and other readers to provide us with personal information other than your nickname and an email address.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:13 pm
On an unrelated note, I didn’t hear Prem’s alleged remarks, but I did hear a particular segment, quite some time ago, in which Fly.fm DJs Basil and Jules were discussing the alleged rumor that Gerard, the lead singer of rock band My Chemical Romance were gay. I clearly heard DJ Basil using the euphemism ‘not normal’ to refer to Gerard’s alleged homosexuality. I didn’t find it very offensive, but since then, Fly.fm has never struck me as a station whose DJs display great professionalism when they broadcast their comments on air.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:31 pm
These stations are purely for entertainment value. I’ve yet to hear any station display great professionalism. (Local or otherwise)
It’s not quite like the old days any more though.
Content has changed because the larger target audience has changed. But on that note, it’s still a lot better than back in the day. Even the mere implication of sex and homosexuality was not allowed. Things have changed quite a bit. Some of the younger generation may not be in the know, but really, it’s come quite a ways. We’re just over half a century as a nation. The future will be good to us if we know how to handle the present.
May 21st, 2009 at 5:13 pm
o anyone who still thinks it was unfair of Tilted World to publish Karen’s letter without first contacting Prem, I wish to add:
FACT:
I left comments on Prem’s blog on the very same day Karen’s letter was published and until today, they’re still not published, nor did my complaint receive any response at all.
FACT:
Prem knows about the allegations, and has remained silent over the issue thus far.
FACT:
The letter was submitted to Fly.fm on the same day. Again, there was no response whatsoever from the station.
FACT:
All these attempts to contact Prem and Fly.fm were followed up by another e-mail from me to Prem. Again, there was no reply.
Left with no avenues of communication, the publication of Karen’s letter on Tilted World is the last means of bringing up this unconcluded matter until we DO get an official response from the alleged person.
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:31 am
Is TiltedWorld going to stand by Ms. Karen D’cruz should FlyFM charged her for gross defamation in a civil suit? After all, this blog has supported her action throughout. Is that picture of DJ Prem with the one-line defamation used with permission? Is TiltedWorld going to turn things around and say just because you are representing the LGBT community (even though I don’t see it to be of positive substance), that such suit was taken due to gross prejudice and discrimination?
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 am
For Gabrielle Chong Yong Wei
FACT:
I left comments on Prem’s blog on the very same day Karen’s letter was published and until today, they’re still not published, nor did my complaint receive any response at all.
– Do you not know of Malaysian communication laws governing internet sites, blogs and spaces? This is apparent to why your complaint went unpublished. Note: unpublished does not mean un-read.
FACT:
Prem knows about the allegations, and has remained silent over the issue thus far.
– I would be pissed by the allegations!!! Two things I might consider doing: 1. Seek legal counsel (since I am accused based on Ms. D’cruz’s letter); 2. Ignore (I received feedback daily anyways, like passing wind, it will blow away).
FACT:
All these attempts to contact Prem and Fly.fm were followed up by another e-mail from me to Prem. Again, there was no reply.
– Do you not ask yourself why he didn’t reply you? I do know of two persons who wrote to DJ Prem. He replied them.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:05 am
TaiYM:
“Is TiltedWorld going to stand by Ms. Karen D’cruz should FlyFM charged her for gross defamation in a civil suit?”
- TiltedWorld has disclaimer concerning the reliability of contents published on the site. It’s right at the top, in white letters against a black backdrop. Please do read it.
“After all, this blog has supported her action throughout. Is that picture of DJ Prem with the one-line defamation used with permission? Is TiltedWorld going to turn things around and say just because you are representing the LGBT community (even though I don’t see it to be of positive substance), that such suit was taken due to gross prejudice and discrimination?”"
- Refer to previous answer. Anyway, is that how big corporations settle complaints brought up their consumers? By turning the tables around and hauling them to court instead of responding to those complaints?
“Do you not know of Malaysian communication laws governing internet sites, blogs and spaces? This is apparent to why your complaint went unpublished. Note: unpublished does not mean un-read.”
- My central point of contention is not in the fact that comments were unpublished, but int the fact that the comments were read, but not responded to.
“I would be pissed by the allegations!!! Two things I might consider doing: 1. Seek legal counsel (since I am accused based on Ms. D’cruz’s letter); 2. Ignore (I received feedback daily anyways, like passing wind, it will blow away).”
- Again, are you implying that that is how Malaysian corporations and public figures respond to allegations and complaints brought up by the public? By straightaway dragging them to courts, or being ignorant and refusing to accept criticism/responding to allegations? Well, you might be right. Perhaps that is why so many of our local radio stations are unable to develop beyond a certain standard; they have become too conceited, complacent and unable to accept criticism or respond to consumers’ allegations.
“Do you not ask yourself why he didn’t reply you? I do know of two persons who wrote to DJ Prem. He replied them.”
- I’m not psychic, how would I know? I wrote in a civil manner. I don’t see any problems in providing a civil reply. Perhaps you could tell me.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:07 am
so the caption of the picture has been removed?
simply just like that?
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:12 am
Happy lezzy:
We have the discretion to alter the contents of our blog, just as Prem has the discretion to publish comments on his blog as he likes.
Anyway, would you like us to put it back up?
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:49 am
caption? what caption?
are you going to put it back, Gabrille? cos i totally missed it
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:34 am
Just wondering: So Prem never talked about his ex-girlfriend turning lesbian at all? Or is it only the word “sick” that people are making a big fuss about?
Jia Hui
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
So is this how Prem’s supporters (namely, “missed the train”, “Happy lezzy” and “Shetland”) resort to after running out of arguments against the alleged remarks? By turning to childish taunts and making personal attacks against me and Yuki on other blog posts on Tilted World? How credible. How professional. If these are the type of people who become Prem’s friends, then I wouldn’t be surprised that allegations were brought up against Prem in the first place.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
*- No, we did not. If you look at the thread of arguments started by ASD, all we were defending was whether the alleged act was something tantamount to discrimination. The letter was only implied as a document talking about the alleged act.
#– Once again, –“ Gross Prejudices on Fly.fm “ — Exhibit A
— How can you say ‘No, we did not??’ This equates to a statement. This is very telling. It sets the mood for the entire issue. And reflects sentiment on the topic.
*- Not true, again. All our posts attribute their original sources with links, quotations, and in this letter’s instance, from the very beginning, it was written who wrote the letter and whether the author approved our publishing it.
#– “We try to provide the direct source of our information and knowledge…” — This was written by one person about someone else. You provided the damning letter and it’s writer but you didn’t seek the truth. It’s one-sided. That’s the point.
*- Again, not true. No one is claiming first-hand knowledge of anything. The letter raised an issue. The fact that some people were disturbed by the issue (of a public figure making potentially unfriendly LGBTQ remarks) is enough cause for a benefit of doubt.
#— A letter raising an issue is all well and good. But including a picture and caption to go with it reflects much more than just raising an issue or ’cause for benefit of doubt’.
— And my point was, you saw this as an issue where. How can you see it as an issue when you didn’t know exactly what he said?
— ‘(of a public figure making potentially unfriendly LGBTQ remarks)’- Still incongruous to the caption and Topic Title.
— ‘benefit of doubt’ DJ Prem received no benefits of any kind.
*- Please refer to previous reply: Again, not true. No one is claiming first-hand knowledge of anything. The letter raised an issue. The fact that some people were disturbed by the issue (of a public figure making potentially unfriendly LGBTQ remarks) is enough cause for a benefit of doubt. I urge you to go through the arguments we were making; they were about the act, whether it took place or not. As for the fact that we published the letter without fact-checking, refer to:”To be clear, Tilted World does not … necessarily agree with the sentiments expressed when posting articles, new stories, letters, and opinion pieces written by other individuals not on the editorial team.”
#— Refer to Topic Title, Caption also.
*– I think, for an unmoderated comments section, I am quite surprised at the maturity of the arguments not being personal attacks on the said person. Again, if you look through the arguments, the person was never demonized or “crucified”. We merely criticized, in discussion, his alleged act.
#— — – Tags | complain letter, DJ Prem, Fly.fm, homophobic remarks
The following letter was written by Karen Ann D’cruz in response to remarks with homophobic overtones by Fly.fm DJ Prem that was broadcasted on air.
— What does all of that mean to you? Where is the benefit of the doubt?
— MmmmHmmm…how many times was the word ‘alleged’ used throughout? Why, one of your team even decided to stop being a listener after all these years.As I said, the way he was reflected in this site, he’d be foolish to respond and subject himself to a barrage of criticism by people who have no real interest in whether he is at fault or not.
*- Nope. This is not a news site. And we do not claim to be journalists. Since we’re quoting the released statement heavily, here’s what we are: “Tilted World has been created to serve as an online community space to allow different individuals to express their views concerning the lives, rights, politics, experiences, and identity of the queer, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and gay community. In line with that goal, Tilted World encourages such discussions that go on in the “comments” section of every post. We do not censor comments, unless they are irrelevant or ad hominem attacks.”
#— Fair enough. That you have not. However, this letter wasn’t posted by Karen D’Cruz. This was posted by your team. You relayed the news and took the time to add a picture and caption. Hence, you played the role of a news site.
Also, encouraging a discussion is one thing but your team must remember that they represent TiltedWorld, when they provide their opinions in the forum, they speak for TiltedWorld.
*- That’s true. The caption was perhaps uncalled for. As for the comparison between us and the Enquirer, now now, who’s crucifying whom?
#— Oh no.. I didn’t mean it as a comparison Per Se. I apologise for that mistake on my part. TiltedWorld cannot even compare to them.
As for crucifixion, you did that sans any help from me. The caption was not ‘perhaps uncalled for’. It was uncalled for. Why is it impossible to say that it was the wrong thing to do straight out? Take your lumps and be done with it.
###—– And for the record 2 people did say they actually heard the show and had nothing negative to report. They weren’t given much notice. they were addressed yes, but no one asked them to elaborate on what they heard. No one on your team was interested. When they were addressed, what they heard was sidelined. So much attention was heaped upon Karen D’ Cruz but these people could have said they witnessed someone cracking an egg over a skillet for all anyone cared.
Instead, focus was given to the whole discrimination/rights/homophobic issue. The first person who responded to this was not hostile. Misguided maybe but now hostile and had some validity. People need to be educated. Speaking to him with a less hostile/aggravated tone wouldn’t have hurt. If he had been hostile, nail his ass to the wall by all means. We need allies. How do we make allies if we can’t make friends and attempt to get along. Showing them the kind of people we are ( or just exerting some control over our emotions ) would work wonders.
—— A few phonecalls and meetups do not require funding. My point was not about whether you want to go into expanding your work into practical action in the near future. It was that if you really want to pursue this sort of work, passion, hobby, work/passion/hobby-while-you’re-single; then you should begin with some tips on how things work by other people who have dedicated their lives to this. And people who actually work with the relevant groups hand in hand. These people have funding, experience and humility. They’ve seen more than most of us would be able to bear. These are the people who work tirelessly to help members of the community at large. They don’t fly into a rage over allegedness. They bear witness and take affirmative action.
And, a taxi ride to the station won’t require a lesbian bake sale to fund it.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:25 pm
What taunts?
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:27 pm
And I am not a supporter of Prem. I don’t believe what was done was fair to him and I would speak up for anyone I felt was unjustly treated.
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Prem’s friend? How did that come about? Another baseless accusation. You think that because I don’t agree with you, I must be his friend?? Interesting how you refer to them now as ‘alleged remarks’….Good for you hun….
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Gabrielle,
Are you making an allegation(seems to be a popular word in here)? I am merely a reader of Tilted World and have not heard of DJ Prem prior to this. I don’t even tune in to fly.fm and how does that make me a supporter? Did I miss the point as well as the train?
I was just curious/bordering kpc on the caption that Happy lezzy was asking about and you offered to put it back up. I am kinda disappointed as I still see no caption and instead being called a childish taunt.
Jia Hui,
Yea, I was wondering too. Has anyone got hold of the session recording? Maybe i should not ask anymore or risk being called DJ Prem’s current jealous lover.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Can we stay focus on the main crux of the issue? TW posted a letter from a reader who had expressed her disapproval on what a fly.fm DJ had mentioned online because TW wanted to provide a space for her to express her opinion. TW has made comments, captions based on her letter.
Now, through other anecdotal comments & TW’s part, TW has learned that:
1) the DJ may not have said what the letter writer had said
2) the DJ has threatened to file a libel/defamation suit against
the letter writer.
To best resolve this, TW is trying its best to obtain an archive of the radio show. To that end, TW has contacted the DJ, radio station, looked online and made pleas to TW readers.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:06 pm
LMAO!!
as a lesbian in malaysia (which means the following remark is a personal opinion, not an allegation) , i find that this website is a disgrace to the malaysia glbt community.
don’t bother to reply me.
because i won’t be here anymore.
thank you
May 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 am
45 comments T___T i’ll reply when i have the time to read this all (and it looks like a lot of ‘all’).
here are some quick thoughts: personally, i don’t think it was fair for us to print letters with unsubstantiated claims. but it was uploaded.
so in that case, i think the better way of approaching the letter is to then offer a dialogue with prem (has he replied?), and i would have preferred both sides of the story to go up at the same time. bar that, interviews with other people who *did* hear the show.
gabs: i don’t think everyone who has issue with this article is necessarily a Prem supporter, it is entirely possible to merely be indignant at a fall in our editorial standards.
that being said, the important issue here is public personalities, and the responsibility they have for the things they say. in that case, i think it applies to us @TiltedWorld too.
even though there is an unofficial/official policy amongst us not to censor (which I’m guessing is a big part of the reason this letter went up), i don’t think that excuses factual errors.
my main issue with contributors has always been that of our (lack of) resources to efficiently check everything that comes in.
Do i think it was Karen’s right to write her letter? yesssss. This is kinda grey for me. Did she make clear in her letter that her grievances were based on hearsay? Yes. So this could all be a discussion on “If this happened”. It is unfortunate that names got named, in that sense. If this was entirely academic, we could totally leave Prem’s name out of this.
TW was set up because of the lack of organised space for LGBTIQ voices to be heard — as you can see from this letter, the writer did not find a complaint space to express her feelings about what she heard from the Fly fm episode. however equal we try to be, i don’t think we’re necessarily a *representation* of the local scene so much as another space where one can voice their views.
it boils down to this. if there are factual errors committed in that letter published on TW, i think the responsibility is that of ours, and the editorial team can’t deny that.
even if prem did present homosexuality in a negative way, if the word ’sick’ belongs solely as an exaggeration/addition based on unverified secondary resources, then we should run an editorial correction, along with reason as to why this error was made. because if prem did not say that, we should not print that he did. and regardless of how controversial or not the letter may be, we should try our best check for factual errors in the content we publish.
we have that issue to deal with, and unfortunately, it also distracts from the key issue: how homosexuality is presented in the media.
did prem talk about his ex, and not wanting to hear she’s now gay? did he offer, as an example, that because she is pretty and can have her pick of men, that her reason is therefore less valid: that someone who can have men and will still go for women is making poor choices? or was this entire radio segment fictionalised?
and is everyone okay with that, if he did? I’m sure some are.
It’s a radio show. People get made fun of, I’m sure. But does that make it okay? eg: Can I make fun of differently-abled people if i think it’s easier?
i’m sure some would be okay with that. no holds-barred in comedy, no stifling of creativity, etc. and i’m sure plenty of people will not be okay with me making fun of differently-abled people on the radio. should they be allowed to express that? sure.
(should they also get the facts before publishing their views about it? sure)
what i’ m saying is….will someone please get an archived copy of the radio show? why is it taking so long T_______T
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 am
Thank you for taking the high road on this. Finally.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 am
Finally. Somebody in your team made sense.
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:55 am
Oh my God. I read all of this, so LOOONGGGG….and in my opinion, an apology should be made to FlyFM and that dj. An apology from D’Cruz, TiltedWorld and especially Gabrielle Chong. She seems to have fallen apart at the end lashing out at people…If I were the DJ, I would sue. Lucky for your guys, he hasn’t. Maybe he doesn’t want to say anything because he thinks there is no point when anyone who disagrees with TiltedWorld (or Gabrielle) is spoken to in a harsh manner. Choosing words carefully is important. For people who blog often, Gabrielle should know better. D’Cruz never even said anything else. And, she didn’t post this letter here.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:14 am
Thank you Lainie for being the voice of reason in this debacle. This was all that was needed from the start. Well said. I doubt that this issue is resolved as yet because we don’t know what’s happening in DJ Prem’s camp, but I will say that this restores some faith in TiltedWorld. Damage control is wise right about now. And on that note, Shaggy, you have a point.
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Hi still at work, but popped by to edit the letter a lillllll bit to
1) add the editor’s note clarifying that there are potential factual inaccuracies in the letter, and the link below
2) change ‘Sirs’ to ‘Sirs/Madams’, and
3) removed the picture — I don’t know what the caption was, but I’m removing it on the presumption that we don’t have the rights to use the photo, and I’m fussy sometimes).
I know there are still unresolved issues, and we’re looking into that. I can’t do much on a metablog without discussing with the others (and I can’t do that unless I start reading the…100 emails thread…).
If the group is okay with my editing (adding editor’s note, really) this letter, I will once I’m off work, unless someone else pops in first to do it (which would be appreciated! hint!). Yeah? Apologies for delay, i *am* aware of the urgent nature of this issue, and am trying to arrange for it to happen.
May 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Thanks for the new note, Gabrielle. I wonder what previous commentators think about the issue of mass media using queer events as funny anecdotes, because it’s not too evident from the 51 posts.
May 26th, 2009 at 3:05 am
by the way ,are none of you curious why the archive to radio segment not made available? Why the radio station not even bother to respond to the complaint??? hmmm ,i think there should be an independent investigation, because threatening a lawsuit is just a coward attempt to intimidate. We demand answers. I mean, if there’s a complaint, it should be handled and explained? I am sure this would get the attention from the international LGBT community as well as the media. The level of homophobia in this country is unbelievable.
May 26th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Jiahuilee -
Keep wondering. It’s a moot point isn’t it now? Anyway, which member of the human race regardless of race, gender or sexuality likes to be made fun/spoken of if in a disrespectful way?
Lena –
Did they say they were going to sue?
The course the station has taken thus far would most probably be with advice from their legal team.
The letter and the posting were too hasty. As there was such a rush to be up in arms, all concerned neglected to check facts. The first shot was fired blindly.
The request for the clip and/or clarification was sent to the station at the same time the letter was featured in TiltedWorld, along with the damning titles, non-authorised picture and caption. This opened up TiltedWorld up as an easy legal target and discredited any possible validity in argument we may have had.
Now, its a moot point because what was said and done in pursuing this were the wrong moves.
TiltedWorld and Karen D’Cruz handed the station the legal haloed ground to the station on a silver platter. The station bigwigs would have consulted their legal eagles and had a good chuckle over their teh tariks. We can’t demand anything because the tactically correct route was not utilised. If this had been done right from the start, we would have the answer we deserve. This is corporate standard, not homophobia. We could achieved something if this had been handled correctly. Now…well…too bad. And it’s a shame because if this station is as insensitive as claimed, we could have had a coup. Be tactical, not emotional. Passion is fine, just don’t let it blind.
May 26th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Isn’t all station play Katy Perry song censored? 11 fellas still cannot look after the blog? If you all cannot look after the blog, the close it. If is ok to lose blog reader, then what for have the blog? TiltedWorld is a blog site some more, not LGBT group, what for the FLYfm listen and reply to you? If the company and country is so homophobic, how come there was ‘Queer Eye For The Straight Guy’ on tv before??? That one not gay??? Nonsense. Embarass to the whole community.
May 27th, 2009 at 4:43 am
ShetlandPony – i’m not going to explain myself really. I just thought as far as the law , corporate standard or what ever you want to call it is concerned ; please refer to the following:
Criminal Code
Section 377 of the penal code prohibits heterosexual and homosexual sodomy with punishments including up to twenty years in prison and or fines and whippings. Section 337a more narrowly prohibits acts of “gross indecency with another male person” with punishment including up to two years in prison[1]. Cross-dressing in public is also a crime under vague laws against public immorality.
Civil Rights
No laws exist to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.
That’s homophobia staring right at you.
Just to remind you as far as Malaysian law is concerned, homosexuality is illegal, there’s are no rights – well i would like to think that’s only for now.
Since this site could be said to be “promoting homosexuality”, this whole site is illegal as far as they’re concerned.
I just hope i didn’t misinterpreted the purpose of this site- what is the reason ? Is it not because we demand equality? There is a clear divide already, this makes me question whether I will ever live to see LGBT rights recognized in Malaysia.
May 27th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Dear Lena,
No, we are not promoting homosexuality. In my own words, I would say that TW does not impose its views or claims that being LGBTQ is better to being heterosexual. TW’s main aim is to advocate for non-discrimination and acceptance of different sexual orientations and gender identities, including heterosexuality. In line with that aim, the site is maintained to provide an open and safe space for discussion; equal emphasis is out on both terms. “Open” because we will not censor any comments, unless they personally attack the author or are irrelevant. “Safe” because we do not force anyone to come out while voicing hir (gender neutral pronoun) opinions and that other people’s sexual orientations and gender identities are not attacked, or revealed.
Nonetheless, we also recognize that a lot of discrimination stem from certain views such as heteronormativty, where society polices, regulates, and expects an individual to perform the gender or sexuality ze (gender neutral pronoun) is assigned. TW is also committed to speak out against such discrimination and to also publish opeds and articles related to how the gendered and heterosexual body is shaped through political and social discourse.
May 27th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
Ah yes, the dreaded Penal Code Section 377.
Check this out http://www.malaysiabrides.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8398
Not going to explain yourself? Good dodge for not getting your facts straight before saying ‘because threatening a lawsuit is just a coward attempt to intimidate.’… Classic. Drives the point right home. Thanks!
As for the homophobia in this country being intolerable, any gays and lesbians in prison under Penal Code 377 having their hides tanned? Anyone have the stats on that? I know there was some gay club raid in 2007 but otherwise, haven’t heard anything much else. On that note, anyone been persecuted/prosecuted by the Fatwa yet? I’m wondering because I personally don’t know of anyone affected thus far. Clue me in if anyone has heard anything. Thanks.
The divide exists because of the emotionally-driven as opposed to factually-driven argument presented. Fight by all means against any and all repression. But we need to get things right first. It’s like going to war with no ammunition. Of course none of us will live to see LGBT rights recognized in Malaysia. That’s ridiculous. Be realistic. This country is what? 53 years old?? Get real. Even in the States things aren’t THAT far along. Don’t make a fuss over unrealistic expectations. Things take time and we have come a way.
For all our terrible discrimination, we have gay and lesbian parties, gatherings, groups etc and have not been bugged thus far. Yes, let’s alert them, throw stones at the hornet’s nest and then see them REALLY take notice of us and our doings. See what happens when they really start to implement effective laws that really will affect us.
Use intelligent means to change things. I’m sure there are means and ways instead of knocking them over the head with a gay brick. This is Malaysia, look at the bigger picture first. Idealism is noble. Realism is effective.
May 27th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Dear Shetland Pony/Shaggy/Patpaw/whatever:
Thanks for the pointers. Tilted World has always striven to adopt more effective and realistic approaches to advocate sexuality rights in Malaysia, and will continue to do so. As for homophobic laws, the lack of prosecution do not justify the rightfulness of their existence any more than the lack of application justifies the repeal of good laws.
Also, you’re welcomed to leave your comments in Tilted World, but since you’re the same person, we’d like you to stick to using one pseudonym – the mutiple nicknames confuses readers.
(On May 23, ‘Shetland’ and ‘Shaggy’ used identical IP addresses – 60.52.100.248. On May 26 and 27, ‘Shetland’ and ‘Patpaw’ used identical IP addresses – 124.82.87.60 and 60.51.104.100 respectively – again.)
May 28th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Some kind of human resource manager you have there. Wow. Must be quite a feat hiring so many people who think alike with different self-implying names.
May 28th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Oh wait, I haven’t finish. On May 21, ‘Jonathan’ and ‘Ms Dorothy’ used identical IP addresses – 202.75.144.7. Meanwhile, on May 23, ‘Taiym’, ‘Shetland’ and ‘Shaggy’ also used the IP address 60.52.100.248. Coincidence of the year huh?
May 31st, 2009 at 10:46 pm
oh well, going to a war with no ammunition you say? Sounds like a very heteronormative war you’re are fighting there miss ” i use multiple nicknames” . Well, I suppose its okay to have homophobic and discriminatory legal ruling against minorities as a long as its not being enforced ‘yet’ or its not effecting you yet?
Yeah, lets throw human rights down the pan indeed, since Malaysia is only a developing nation with merely decades of independence. Only the LGBT people who live in developed nation like in the UK or US deserve rights because they’ve suffered enough abuse and discrimination for the past hundreds of years? So, yeah bring on more of those fatwa or homophobic threat I say so we can earn the respect and win this unfair heteronormative war for equality?
Think again my friend